Hello. I hope you're all well and happy. Thanks for coming back.
I've been a bit rubbish again, and I'm sorry. This blog is basically turning into one long string of apologies, half-explanations and inept rhymes. I don't want to deluge you with trivia, and blogging about the more interesting parts of my life at the moment with any degree of truth is a bit too surreal, but bear with me - I promise I'm writing new stuff for you to read, it's a lot funnier, and most of it isn't about my two favourite topics of atheism or buses.
Until I upload it, here's an interview I did for Credo, Independent on Sunday. Where are my arms? I am totally 'armless.
Secondly, here's a sympathetic piece on the campaign (see "Wednesday") from BBC World Service. Which was nice, and quite unexpected.
And lastly, here's the text of my Thought For The Afternoon, which was broadcast on Radio 4 on January 10, and which a few people have asked for (someone also kindly uploaded the broadcast - thank you). I hope you enjoy all these things - and I promise to write again soon.
Thought For The Afternoon
We live in a beautiful, fascinating and complex world, and we’re all trying to make sense of it as best we can. There are 6.7 billion of us living on this planet, belonging to hundreds of different belief systems. Most of us want to live peacefully, yet we also want to think that our own personal beliefs are the right ones. And if we are right, whatever we believe, that means millions or possibly billions of other people must be wrong.
As a world full of individuals, we are never all going to think the same way. What we can do is accept that we hold many different beliefs - and focus instead on what unites us as human beings, because we are truly similar in so many ways. We all want to feel loved, and to give love freely; we all want our children to be happy, healthy and safe, and for them to receive a good education. We all want to live long, enjoyable lives free from fear and pain. And we’re all muddling through life the best way we know how.
What’s important are not the beliefs we hold, but that we are free to hold them, and that we always express them peacefully. That we see all other people as individual human beings just like ourselves, who love and hurt and laugh and feel pain and hope. That we share our lives with people of different backgrounds; that we talk about all kinds of ideas calmly and openly; and that instead of letting our differences divide us, we let our similarities bring us together.
Britain is a wonderful country where people are free to believe in whatever they like, and that includes non-belief. Many people think humanists and atheists don’t believe in anything. This isn’t true. We may not believe in a God, but like most believers, we think we only have one life on this planet. Nobody knows for certain what happens after this, but we know that we only have a very short time to experience all the excitement, adventure, love, fun, humanity and kindness available to us. We’re lucky to be alive - and to live life to the full, we need to share it with others and learn from them - whatever you, or I, believe.
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79 comments:
Beautifully put. I went on a date with a guy who's a Mormon last night (an interesting first for me!) and it just affirmed my atheism. But since then I've found it hard to think about anything else apart from how crazy the whole idea of religion is. Reading your 'Thought' has reminded me there's no point stressing about what other people choose to believe as long as they play nice.
I'm not a fan of the bus campaign, which strikes me as somewhat intolerant (don't worry about it, but we're worried enough to campaign for our point of view...). Sorry.
However, I thought your thought for the afternoon was lovely. It encapsulated the tolerance that should underpin humanism - and allowed for all beliefs.
While you're being inclusive, don't forget that while technically correct, your assertion that most people believe we're only here once excludes a significant minority (Hindus, Buddhists...). Your conclusion however holds good whether or not you believe this is your only visit here, and doesn't really follow from that premise.
As well as peaceful expression of one's religion or world view, there should - I contend - be plenty of room for non-expression. After all, the most deeply held convictions don't need the affirmation of others, or the reassurance of a like-minded congregation, rabble, organization or whatever.
DavidP, I think her assertion still covers Hindus and Buddhists. I guess if you wanted to be truly technical, you could state, as I have heard some Buddhists refer to it as, "This one 'unique' life." Because regardless of being reincarnated or reborn (there is a difference),you will not be born under the same conditions. You won't have the same parents, friends, and life. This unique life - your memories and everything that makes you YOU is conditional to your body, which will eventually expire and turn to dust. Our Karma, some believe, carries on by transforming into to new life, but THIS life, YOUR life - This is it, Hindus and Buddhists alike. So like she is saying, while we are all here, let's try to get along, enjoy our lives and not be such shits to each other.
I love your Thought for the Afternoon. We are indeed fortunate to have freedom of expression and you took advantage of this to deliver an important message. I'm sure it made a few people revise their opinion of non-believers.
DavidP
I would agree with you - "there should - I contend - be plenty of room for non-expression."
However, if you have followed the history of the Atheist Bus Campaign and the movement to get a Humanist representation on "Thought of the Day" it is a response to the many religious influences that are expressed daily, on the radio, on TV, in schools and on hoardings.
I believe it was a particular advertising hoarding that linked to a christian website promising hellfire to anyone who didn't follow their particular brand of christianity.
Again, I would agree with you that silence on ALL sides is the better way, but that includes allowing children to grow up without indoctrination.
DavidP, if you think something as benign as the bus campaign is "somewhat intolerant", imagine how some non-believers feel when they hear some Christians banging on about how we're going to burn for eternity in hell, or some Muslims going on about how we should be converted or killed as infidels, etc.
Anything that encourages you to enjoy yourself, and in a gaudy pink typeface, could not possibly be *that* intolerant, could it?
Much wiseness on display.
Nice job Ariane, that was very well done.
I recently came to realize that the root of all of humanity's problems is egotism. With that came the realization of the purpose of my life.....to acquire unselfish love. Sadly, most people will hear a message like yours and only come away with something to solidify their hedonism.
People are so self-centered that it is disturbing. No matter one's beliefs it doesn't change. For instance, most Christians look forward to a self-centered indulgence in the afterlife while those who didn't say the magic "born again" words have to watch in eternal torment. Yet they have the nerve to accuse non-believers of being immoral.
Anyway, I look forward to new non-bus related posts. :)
Ariane, as ever you have made a pertinent point very well. The two minute clip sums up exactly what us non-believers want with beauty and eloquence.
http://anti-theist-uk.blogspot.com
Well, because you're being your self, namely Ariane; I'll be frank, the irrational (as it's been well illustrated by the bus campaign) might be with us for quite sometime. Science is nowhere near eradicating the irrational.
I like what you've said at the end.
I'll close my thoughts with something that might hopefully satisfy the scientist, the believer, and the hippy...there is within all of us an ineffaceable cosmic imprint.
Apropos of the Athiest Bus (I donated) I see that the counter campaigns have commenced. The Christian Party have "There definitely is a God", the Russian Orthodox Church have "There is a God. BELIEVE. Don't worry and enjoy your life" and the Trinitarian Bible Society have the tired old "The fool hath said in his heard there is no God". Seen that last one myself, with the obvious thought of "Well, even a fool gets SOMETHING right now and then". Hey ho. Stephen Green is apparently delighted, "The forces of darkness are in retreat" he said.
(Source- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/05/AR2009020503150.html)
Time for round two?
Thanks for the feedback all.
What I liked about Ariane's beautiful piece in contrast to the bus campaign was the tolerance of all viewpoints.
I find that the humanist position is at its strongest, when it promotes tolerance, and doesn't preach that there is definitely, or even probably, no God - i.e. is in the rather paradoxical position of non-expression.
The rationalist failure of logic that takes the fact that there is clearly no scientific evidence for God, and then wrongly concludes that God doesn't exist (in logic, you can't conclude "not X" from the failure to prove "X") is predicated on the ignorant idea that science has an explanation for the universe that hangs together and that we can trust.
And while proven scientific facts such as evolution are comforting and real, as scientist I find the fact that we can't find a mathematical basis even for the forces we can observe in physics serves a salutory reminder that we can so far only prove a very limited set of things, and we can scientifically disprove virtually nothing.
Humanists should conclude, I suggest, as in Ariane's piece, that how we live is more important than what we believe, and be willing to keep an open, sceptical mind, rather than falling in with a petulant, vocal atheism based on bad logic.
the Russian Orthodox Church have "There is a God. BELIEVE. Don't worry and enjoy your life"
That is so typically Orthodox and a perfect example of why I love them.
Contained within that phrase are very profound theological implications. Orthodox Christianity is experiential and panentheistic so they don't feel in any way bound by culture's demands for proof and idolatrous kataphatic (positive) assertions about God.
Also significant is that they kept the part about not worrying and enjoying life. Why? Because Orthodox Christians believe that fear (of death ultimately) is a sign of still being enslaved to one's passions and is the cause of self-centered activity.
As for "The fool hath said in his heard there is no God", that one is used improperly by Christians and is quite insulting. The wording is key. It doesn't say "says in his mind" it says "says in his heart". It is a sign of what western Christianity has fallen into that they would interpret it that way. According to Christians, the heart (soul) is where one experiences God so it would take a fool to experience God in their soul and then deny Him. But atheists don't believe in the soul so they are not subject to that verse in any way.
Beautifully written and read.
I could probably get cynical about it if I warmed up the ol' bile duct, but for the moment I think there's something in my eye...
The Thought for the Afternoon text was intelligent and very poignant - well done. I'm also looking forward to reading the new 'funnier' stuff. Comedy is important!
That was well put, Arianne.
I was struck by Mark Damazer's inference that atheists cannot have a spiritual side. Because of the religious yokes they may have had to struggle free from, atheists can be profoundly thoughtful people, who have had to arrive at their own moral values through reasoning, not indoctrination. They do indeed deserve representation on Thought for the Day.
I love the thought for the afternoon and took the liberty to put it on my blog. And for whoever thinks that the bus campaign is intolerant: it is simply a clear stand for humanism and secularism. A vast number (maybe a majority?) of the people of this country are borderline atheist, at least secularist, it's nice that their voice can be heard. Religious zealots of all confessions have occupied the public sphere for too long and it's nice to see a campaign that shows them what Western society is really made of. And I love a publicity campaign that does not urge me to consume any brand in particular but to have pleasure in life. Religious people often forget that one can enjoy life without God and be moral without the threat of eternal punishment.
wonderful sentiments. We agree in many many ways. Refreshing to find someone who has attained such a public profile with these kinds of thoughts. Best of luck.
Hey you!
What a great post! I really like your positivity in your writing. Sick of bad news all the time. Keep up the good work and I'll try to post some more asap! Even if the bus campaign made me laugh, it will be good to read your "normal" words again.
From Norway with love (and gas)!
My son, keep my words
and store up my commands within you.
Keep my commands and you will live;
guard my teachings as the apple of your eye.
Bind them on your fingers;
write them on the tablet of your heart.
Say to wisdom, "You are my sister,"
and call understanding your kinsman;
they will keep you from the adulteress,
from the wayward wife with her seductive words.
At the window of my house
I looked out through the lattice.
I saw among the simple,
I noticed among the young men,
a youth who lacked judgment.
He was going down the street near her corner,
walking along in the direction of her house
at twilight, as the day was fading,
as the dark of night set in.
Then out came a woman to meet him,
dressed like a prostitute and with crafty intent.
(She is loud and defiant,
her feet never stay at home;
now in the street, now in the squares,
at every corner she lurks.)
She took hold of him and kissed him
and with a brazen face she said:
"I have fellowship offerings at home;
today I fulfilled my vows.
So I came out to meet you;
I looked for you and have found you!
I have covered my bed
with colored linens from Egypt.
I have perfumed my bed
with myrrh, aloes and cinnamon.
Come, let's drink deep of love till morning;
let's enjoy ourselves with love!
My husband is not at home;
he has gone on a long journey.
He took his purse filled with money
and will not be home till full moon."
With persuasive words she led him astray;
she seduced him with her smooth talk.
All at once he followed her
like an ox going to the slaughter,
like a deer stepping into a noose
till an arrow pierces his liver,
like a bird darting into a snare,
little knowing it will cost him his life.
Now then, my sons, listen to me;
pay attention to what I say.
Do not let your heart turn to her ways
or stray into her paths.
Many are the victims she has brought down;
her slain are a mighty throng.
Her house is a highway to the grave,
leading down to the chambers of death.
Proverbs 7
Belaya, is that supposed to mean anything? If you value the Bible, maybe you should not use it to insult people.
I agree Guillaume. Ariane is obviously a very sweet and caring woman so that is totally uncalled for.
The parable has nothing to do with a literal woman and to use it that way is to miss the point. It is speaking of whether a person will choose Wisdom (righteousness) or the adulteress (self-centered wickedness).
Of course, one could say (and perhaps that is what belaya is getting at) that anyone who doesn't choose God is choosing the adulteress but it isn't that simple. From a Christian perspective, one can be following Christ and not even be aware of it. It all depends on the orientation of their heart.
I am a Chinese living in Hong Kong
I am an atheist.
I know theist would be aggressive to atheist.
I support you :)
Hello "Black Shadow"
I'm just fucking with you! (Everybody loves Mary):
Inspiration to Innovation - From Norway with Love
Date: Wednesday, 15 October 2008
Time: 12:00 - 15:00
Three-person panel discussion about strategies used by successful technology companies that went from Norway to the rest of the world.
Oslo Innovation Week - From Norway with love
There's a lot of "lovers" out there. A LOT.
But...Damn! You write beautifully. Wish I had your skills (I'm only a simple student of business). Charity is finite, business is infinte.
Article of the day:
Economist - Norway and the environment
Tunes of the day: Ok Go!
"Invincible"
Do what you want
Here it goes again
Quote of the day:
«Beware, there is a giant lion from London Zoo on the loose!»
Now I have some business to do (it's fun).
Best wishes (you too "Black Shadow"),
"Green Shadow"
Summarizing beleya:
Get your head round this unnecessarily complex parable, then do as you're told or else you'll die and go to a place called hell that we've made up to keep you in line.
Makes Christianity sound so inviting...
I was lucky enough to hear the original radio broadcast.
Ariane, I think every one of the 6.7 billion should be given the opportunity to read what you have written here.
Am I the only one who was quite turned on by Belaya's post? If only it had an alternative ending -
And after he had done the deed
he feared God's pitiless wrath.
But then a message on a passing caravan
reassured the youth
and he was happy once again.
Well, I don't know about being turned on, but I always said there is some rather heavy erotic (even sometimes pornographic) stuff in the Bible.
You're quite right there, Guillaume, in fact Neil Gaiman says he once almost got a publisher put in prison for obscenity when he illustrated a section of the Bible.
Thank you to everyone for your sweet comments. @Guillaume - thanks for your comment of 21.06 today.
Will write again ASAP.
@Brian: I really appreciate your comment, but have deleted Anonymous's and think it's probably better if we forget it. Many thanks. x
Deleted - but I am very grateful for you guys sticking up for me.
I saw that comment earlier from Anonymous (a really gutsy name btw). That was probably one of my neighbors here in Kentucky.
Everything they don't agree with usually ends with a thinly veiled threat about shooting those who hold another view.
To araine:
there's a god he hears our prayers now "stop worrying about superstition and change your life soon"
we Christians go to hell when we disobey god,we doom ourselves not the other way around
Leave her alone! We are free to believe and discuss whatever we want. And what you call hell, I find quite distant. For many people on this planet, hell is right here on earth. Complex of course...
Since I strangely enough, cannot access my email account, write something...back in a moment...
Since I'm an atheist (if I am to label myself), I have not read the bible or any other "holy" book. I'm more into asking questions, than giving answers.
Quote of the day: Buckminster Fuller
"Does humanity have a chance to survive lastingly and successfully on planet Earth, and if so, how?"
Bucky@wiki
To give a more "deeper" comment on Belaya, I cannot say if this is biblical or not. I have a hunch it's not. But I assume the 7 proverbs is refering to the 7 deadly sins, which is NOT biblical, but derived from logic reasoning by a pope called Gregor Dialogus (Greogory the great, but i prefer Dialogus since that is actually what we're doing). He is also the patron saint of mining, bricklayers, knappestøpere, the scholars, teachers, pupils, students, the religious school system, singers and musicians, choirs and koralsang, against gout, and plague. (I did not bother to search for another source than norwegian wiki):
Gregor - Norwegian wiki
The 7 deadly sins are actually quite actual today as well.
7 deadly sins
Since I'm an information junkie, I still read news even if they're bad. And I just read today that the economy is getting worse. These "sins" can easily be connected with the economic situation today. Greed, Lust, Envy, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, Pride. So much that I actually just want to put my head in the sand like an ostrich(?), but won't. So I reason these sins are the cause, and it's virtues may actually be the way out of it in a simplified way (Chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience, kindness, kindness, humility). Even if these are linked to the catholic church (I have a protestant "upbringing" because of school), I find these virtues interesting. But this is quite complex to describe in detail. Think for yourself as Bucky says (and Dawkins).
But equally important as these virtues to fix the economic situation, and the life quality of people, is positivity (so thank you all for staying positive). The crisis can also be a great opportunity to "answer" Buckys question. Or at least come a bit closer. The challenges are so many, but these can all be solved.
Another source of inspiration is the economist Ludwig Von Mises;
"Everyone carries a part of society on his shoulders". My favorite economist is though Joseph Schumpeter who invented the term "creative destruction".
Schumpeter - wiki
But since the economy is seemingly melting down, I would rather say we need "creative construction". Like construction of renewable energy, sustainable consumption, positivity and care for each other if I am to simplify this term.
Tune of the day: Beatles
All we need is love
Question of the day: International Business Monkey
We all need love?
Philosopher of the day:
Arne Næss
Arne Næss - wiki
So I will repeat myself:
From Norway with "love" (and gas)
Cheers,
I
Jesus Christ, "Anonymous" you are a coward. I think what pisses you off so much is that Ariane defends her view with more intelligence, eloquence and respect than all you religious fanatics.
"Anonymous" would you please respect other peoples right to disagree with you and stop threatening.
We are content for you to believe what you want, please allow others that privilege as well.
If your view (of the very many views that do exist or could exist) happens to turn out to be the correct one, then don't you think it is up to your deity to meet out any punishment not for you to take that into your own hands.
Just in case you happen to be wrong?
I am not some kind of religious fanatic(sorry ariane)but i have more respect for atheists that do good then some self-righteous hell-condemning fanatics my point is we have a free will as human beings we choos where to go after we die
Come on Parkeraduk, talking about your right and intelligence, how about God's right?
Guillaume, here is some more info about bible..
1 It is unique in its continuity.
If just 10 people today were picked who were from the same place, born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made about the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible stands alone. It was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony. They wrote in dungeons, in temples, on beaches, and on hillsides, during peacetime and during war. Yet their words sound like they came from the same source. So even though 10 people today couldn’t write on one controversial subject and agree, God picked 40 different people to write the Bible—and it stands the test of time.
2. It is unique in its circulation.
The invention of the printing press in 1450 made it possible to print books in large quantities. The first book printed was the Bible. Since then, the Bible has been read by more people and printed more times than any other book in history. By 1930, over one billion Bibles had been distributed by Bible societies around the world. By 1977, Bible societies alone were printing over 200 million Bibles each year, and this doesn’t include the rest of the Bible publishing companies. No one who is interested in knowing the truth can ignore such an important book.
3. It is unique in its translation.
The Bible has been translated into over 1,400 languages. No other book even comes close.
4. It is unique in its survival.
In ancient times, books were copied by hand onto manuscripts which were made from parchment and would decay over time. Ancient books are available today only because someone made copies of the originals to preserve them. For example, the original writings of Julius Caesar are no longer around. We know what he wrote only by the copies we have. Only 10 copies still exist, and they were made 1,000 years after he died. Only 600 copies of Homer’s The Iliad exist, made 1,300 years after the originals were written. No other book has as many copies of the ancient manuscripts as the Bible. In fact, there are over 24,000 copies of New Testament manuscripts, some written within 35 years of the writer’s death.
5. It is unique in withstanding attack.
No other book has been so attacked throughout history as the Bible. In A.D. 300 the Roman emperor Diocletian ordered every Bible burned because he thought that by destroying the Scriptures he could destroy Christianity. Anyone caught with a Bible would be executed. But just 25 years later, the Roman emperor Constantine ordered that 50 perfect copies of the Bible be made at government expense. The French philosopher Voltaire, a skeptic who destroyed the faith of many people, boasted that within 100 years of his death, the Bible would disappear from the face of the earth. Voltaire died in 1728, but the Bible lives on. The irony of history is that 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his former house and used his printing presses to print thousands of Bibles.
The Bible has also survived criticism. No book has been more attacked for its accuracy. And yet archeologists are proving every year that the Bible’s detailed descriptions of historic events are correct. See Matthew 4:4 and 1 Peter 1:25 footnotes.
Now, Can you tell us why you haven’t read it yet? Other than your intelligence.
Are you on Facebook, Living Water? There's a group of people there who are discussing just this kind of thing:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=32985131033
Make a little room for those that don't care, eh?
Acutally, I have read the Bible, so there goes your assumption. And what you wrote down is filled with half-truth and inacurracies. Nobody here denies the popularity of the Bible. It does not make it acurate, so your argument here is non sequitur. The Bible contradicts itself at numerous occasions: Christian and Jewish morals differ, for instance, and the gospels don't even agree on vital stories (I would not say they are events) for the faith: Jesus's death and resurrection, his birth, etc. Saint Paul did not even believed Jesus was born from a virgin, as he claimed that he was on his father's side a descendant from king David. And of course, many stories told in the Bible we now know they are entirely mythical (the Genesis, which I hope you don't consider factual, heck even the Vatican does not anymore) or very loosely based on real events at best (let's say the reign of king David, who was not much more than a warlord and a chief of tribes in reality). In fact, science, history and archeology have proved that the Bible is often no more historically true than the Chanson de Roland (also inspired by real events) or the Arthurian legend. Now, one could still based his or her life on the Bible's moral teaching, but I happen to have issues with said teaching, as well as the armies of Christians from all denominations (but it could be also true of Muslims and Jews) who mixes moral and ethics with faith. If God exists and wants to reserve a place in Heaven to a bunch of sycophants, well I'll have none of it. I'll rather live my life morally according to the effects my actions have in this world. This is the only criteria that we have.
@How about god's right - which god there are so many.
If a god has difficulty sticking up for themself then I wouldn't consider them a god, but I am happy for you to do so.
I just don't want anyone to insist that I choose their particular perception of which god to believe in. I don't insist that anyone has to take my view - it's called free will.
Parkeraduk, Which God? God who created you with out your free will and give you the free will you have!
I'll rather live my life morally according to the effects my actions have in this world. This is the only criteria that we have.
But the bible tells us this criteria doesn’t always work
Jesus, however, went to the Mount of Olives. At daybreak he appeared again in the temple, and all the people came to him. So he sat down and began to teach them. But the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery After setting her before them they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of adultery. Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women to death. What do you say?” They said this to test him, so that they might have a charge against him. But Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger.
When they persisted in questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let the person among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Then he bent down again and continued writing on the ground.When they heard this, they went away one by one, beginning with the oldest, and he was left alone with the woman standing there. Then Jesus stood up and said to her, “Dear lady, where are your accusers? Hasn't anyone condemned you?”
She said, “No one, sir.”
Then Jesus said, “I don't condemn you, either. Go home, and from now on do not sin any more”
John 8:10
"But the bible tells us this criteria doesn’t always work"
The Bible tells us a lot of things and is clearly mistaken on that part. What matters is the effects one's actions has in this world, the only way one can say if something is moral or not. You cannot get your moral from the arbitrary desires of a God which existence is unproven. Your actions affect this world, not an hypothetical Heaven or afterlife. The guidances of a so-called sacred text are never in themselves moral. It is man that judges them so, not God (who quite often in these texts is pretty much arbitrary and amoral).
Hi Folks,
The Humanist Society of Scotland is running with this idea and has get some cool peeps to speak:
http://www.thoughtfortheworld.org/
Now if only we could get this on the Today program John Humphries would be a lot happier.
@ How about god's rights.
You haven't defined which of the miriad of gods available you believe created me (and you presumably).
But, as I keep saying, I am happy for you to believe whatever you want if you to allow me (and everyone else) that same priviledge.
To Living Water:
1. Why should it be necessary to read the bible to find the truth? There's so many religions with interesting texts and views in addition to millions, if not billions, of other non-religious books and texts.
2. What kind of adultery are we talking about here when referring to Jesus? Back in the days they didn't have rubbers and sexual diseases could be deadly (7 deadly sins). It also lead to death of babies in a major scale:
Gregor insisted on celibacy for the priesthood, and those who opposed it, were deposited. He was particularly harsh against monasteries where women had open access and open brothers played "godfathers" for their children. It is said that Gregor later found that his orders had resulted in many children's unnecessary death, after their clerical fathers had been forced to forstøte them. According to a letter from the bishop of Augusta Huldric to Pope Nicholas I (858-67) Gregor had ordered his servants to empty a fish pond. At the bottom they found the skeleton of the 6,000 children, drowned, or murdered in some other way. Gregor withdrew mandatory celibacy immediately.
Source: katolsk.no - Biography (in Norwegian)
Article of the day:
A response to my critics - Rupert Sheldrake
Isaac Newton ran into the science/magic problem with gravity. The idea that the moon influenced the tides through empty space sounded like magic, and Newton was embarrassed by his failure to explain what he called the "occult" or hidden force of gravitation. His critics, mainly French, accused him of magical thinking.
John Maddox, as editor of Nature, proclaimed me a heretic for "putting forward magic instead of science." He used magic as a pejorative word for any action at a distance not yet recognised by science. Morphic resonance may indeed sound like magic, but it is a testable scientific hypothesis.
Question of the day:
Does everything have to be proved to be true, and is everything that cannot be proved not true?
Sorry: forstøte=abandon
Really enjoyed the 'thought for today' and the piece you wrote said more about humanity than all of those 'good books'. For your comments were not to influence others, rather than to remind us that life is to live.
I am not raciast or fasciast. Nor do I have a hatred for religous teaching. I have a prefound dislike for nasty and selfish people. People who wish to subject millions to their way of thinking, to regulate and control people from the freedom of life.
A thought: A child is born, a boy. His mother and father are killed in an accident fleeing from a land that religously dictates. The small boat floats across the seas to an island. The child is rescued by an islander. This islander has never seen anyone other than his own and is mystified, but happy. Years go by and the child is raised. No electronics,No communication,No hatred and No idea of the world beyond the sea. He speaks the native tongue and grows up with no knowledge of religion. He lives his whole life free from war, control and pain. Why did God choose people from parts of the world that seek power and cause suffering to spread his word. Did he forget this island that peace survives? No he didn't choose, we did using the name God to carryout our wishes and make them religous. We will never see this Island as humanity will not allow it, whilst those who proclaim a connection with a God and it's medi-evil text continue to try and influence our way of life. I exclude no religion! I do not hate you and I wish no harm, Why then do you hate me for believing not in what I believe,but....Life.
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Revolution-lyrics-Grandaddy/AC292DA627993EE848256D4C0026D331
http://video.google.com/videosearch?rlz=1C1CHMP_enNO305NO306&sourceid=chrome&q=buckminster%20fuller&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#
Great Indie piece. Fantastic dress.
Hey miss Ariane please stop, it's so sick and sad to offend some people like the "go-to-hell" adverts. Can't you offer something like a inspirational message? Just asking because you might get offending adverts from other religious people.(I am not a fan of your Campaign,nor do I endorse some fanatics.It's just that putting the words:"There is probably no God Now stop worrying and enjoy your life" on the buses is just like a religious advert.)Atheism to me is more of a religion,not a philosophy, Think about it many religious people contributed to england's history is a positive way(be it Christian Muslim,and Jew)they contributions may not be retold here,but nonetheless it's just good for the UK.I hope there will be someday some guy will help you rethink about religion(as a note you are my girlfriend material)
God bless(or rather have a pleasant day)
Happy valentine's day(kisses and hugs)
Greetings from a Catholic
PJ Martin
What a load of crap that was.
Makes me want to spew.
Have 58 people lost their mind?
MC
PJ Martin-I don't see why the add was offensive in any way, shape or form, unless you are offended by people who do not believe like you do. In which case, you are easily offended (and maybe anally retentive?). The fundies of all faiths got their faith in the public sphere for long enough now, I am glad secularists can at last be heard and spread a different message. Yes, there are good religious people, but I don't find those advertising Hell for the unbelievers any good, neither are those who try to censor unbelievers and humanists, or homosexual artists (hello Christian Voice), who try to lobby their own agenda on abortion, faith schools, creationism, etc. Actually, I would not only say that they are not good, they are not even remotely moral. They try to impose their values to a society that is and should be secular. Oh, and for the record, atheism is not a faith, it is not a religion, it is an philosophical stand based on observations. It can be true or false, but at least an atheist does not base his life on something unverifiable and on the arbitrary will of a God whose existence, let alone his will, is unproven.
You see Mr Guillaume atheism is some fad that attracts it's followers, the ad is very stupid as a "go-to-hell" ad it offends some people they are sensitive as atheists (as a note I appreciate some positive contributions of Famous atheists,but the proverb "the end does not justify the means" should be remembered here) we have gave you a chance to speak,but now Ariane should put something like"with or without god,let's be good for goodness's sake" it's just the words "there is no god" has a cynical view that has spiced with little pessimism,and you a Quebecois expatriate should positively acknowledge your catholic faith(like mine) for bringing good to Canada.
Have a Good day
PJ Martin
Vous voyez Mr Guillaume athéisme est un phénomène de mode qui attire c'est adeptes, l'annonce est très stupide comme un "go to hell" ad il offense certaines personnes ils sont sensibles que les athées (comme une note J'apprécie certaines contributions positives de Famous athées, mais les proverbe «la fin ne justifie pas les moyens» devrait être de rappeler ici), nous avons donné une chance de vous parler, mais maintenant, Ariane doit mettre quelque chose comme "avec ou sans dieu, il faut être bon pour le bien de la bonté" c'est juste les mots «il Pas de divinité "a une vue cynique qui a épicé avec peu de pessimisme, et vous québécois expatriés doivent reconnaître positivement votre foi catholique (comme moi) pour faire une bonne pour le Canada.
Bonne chance
PJ Martin
"We have given you a chance to speak"? The society we live in and are a part of did, we did not gain any priviledge, we exercise our right to free speech, that's all. There is nothing morally wrong with Ariane's atheist slogan or the thought for the day. It simply states that in the absence of evidence of the existence of God, one should not worry about a very hypothetical afterlife but enjoy the life we know is real.
As for the good the Catholic church did in Québec (or rather: some of its members did), I acknowledged it on my own blog. That said, the Catholic church was also a very repressive force and would still be had we Quebeckers not stripped it off its power and influence. In any case, I would not trade the free society we have now to the repressive society we had then, that was run by priests and that many princes of the Church (including the cardinal Ouellet) would like to go back to. It was called the Grande Noirceur for a reason. Besides, even a good priest is no proof of the existence of God.
We need to take the good and the bad in everything.let me put a question to you Mr Guillaume
If God does not exist?
have you felt pain?
have you tasted pain?
have you seen pain?
have you hear pain?
have you smelled pain?(I know,a dumb question)
By that you could only feel pain,not tasted, heard, smelled, and seen pain.
Witch means there's a God
There is One thing we share in Common: that is we are human beings, let's be good to each other, regardless of the supernatural.
God bless(or rather have a good day)
PJ Martin
Nous avons besoin de prendre le bon et le mauvais dans everything.let me poser une question à vous Monsieur Guillaume
Si Dieu n'existe pas?
avez-vous ressenti des douleurs?
avez-vous goûté à la douleur?
Avez-vous vu la douleur?
avez-vous entendre la douleur?
avez-vous senti de la douleur? (je sais, une question stupide)
Par ce que vous pourriez ressentir de la douleur, pas goûté, entendu, senti et vu la douleur.
Witch signifie qu'il ya un Dieu
Il ya une chose que nous partageons en commun: c'est que nous sommes des êtres humains, il faut être bon à l'autre, quel que soit le surnaturel.
Dieu vous bénisse (ou plutôt un bon jour)
PJ Martin
We feel pain, so there is a God? You completely lost me there. This is just as non sequitur as it can go. As for the good and the bad in everything, when you can get rid of the bad, I don't see why you should accept it. And I don't want to be rude, but your French is horrible and full of mistakes.
Is the comments section supposed to be a debate forum? I don't want to hijack this blog to debate against theist.
Yup it's full of mistakes(my french sorry), but I am talking about the existence of the soul.If we erase the past,we can't build a future for the world. We can get rid of bad things,but not suffering it goes to the believers and non-believers alike.(hehe) We need to face the world,in a honest matter.Sometimes we need to turn to god,like a kid who runs to his dad when his toy is broken.I know of some great religious people,who used to deny the existence of god,and only when they prayed they found the light.Try it today, if you like(that's my thought for today)
PJ Martin
oui il est plein d'erreurs (mon français désolé), mais je veux parler de l'existence de l'âme. on effacer le passé, alors nous ne pouvons pas construire un avenir pour le monde. on peut se débarrasser de mauvaises choses, mais ne souffre pas, il va pour les croyants et les non-croyants. (rire), nous avons besoin pour affronter le monde, dans un honnête matter.sometimes nous avons besoin de se tourner vers Dieu, comme un enfant qui court à son père quand il a perdu son train.i sais très religieux de certaines personnes, qui ont servi à nier l'existence de Dieu, et seulement quand ils ont prié ils ont trouvé le light.try aujourd'hui, si vous le souhaitez (c'est ma pensée d'aujourd'hui)
PJ Martin
PJ Martin, I don't want to go back to this post, don't want to hijack Ariane's blog with endless debates. You basically want me to pray to what I consider a placebo. Sorry, not my thing. I do not turn to imaginary friends for guidance, I use my own conscience.
I don't mind if you want to have debates! x
Well ariane here's my letter:
Hey miss Ariane please stop, it's so sick and sad to offend some people like the "go-to-hell" adverts. Can't you offer something like a inspirational message? Just asking because you might get offending adverts from other religious people.(I am not a fan of your Campaign,nor do I endorse some fanatics.It's just that putting the words:"There is probably no God Now stop worrying and enjoy your life" on the buses is just like a religious advert.)Atheism to me is more of a religion,not a philosophy, Think about it many religious people contributed to england's history is a positive way(be it Christian Muslim,and Jew)they contributions may not be retold here,but nonetheless it's just good for the UK.I hope there will be someday some guy will help you rethink about religion(as a note you are my girlfriend material)
God bless(or rather have a pleasant day)
Belated happy valentine's day(kisses and hugs)
Greetings from a Catholic
PJ Martin
So, PJ Martin, dans une nut-shell, your point of this was...?
God does exist!(will speak about it next time)
PJ Martin, you are quite correct, your god does exist - but only inside your head.
Peace.
@PJ Martin - The first phrase in your diatribe says it all "in hope we were saved".
Hope, that is all that religions are based upon.
We are happy for you to use that for your life, please allow us to use our understanding of science.
Thought for Today
In today's gospel reading (for a catholic Sunday service or Mass)(Mark 2 1-12) we hear of a Paralytic(or a Paraplegic) in the stretcher whose friends broke the roof of the house to put Him down,where Jesus was there healing other people because it was overcrowded. Upon seeing the Paralytic,Jesus said the words "Your sins are forgiven" there was questioning over the words that he said because in the old days,there was a concept of this view that god alone can forgive sins.but Jesus knew that healing is for body and soul(If there is such a thing for you guys and gals,who are atheist and agnostic)and Second Jesus is god(when will the pharisees will ever learn?,obviously they close their ears and eyes)However Jesus says to the paralytic "get up.pick up your stretcher,and go home. and tell your neighbors what god has shown mercy for you, in a special way(Mark 5:19 paraphrase emphasis added) then as He walked home everybody there praised God,they have never seen anything like this as they put it. Here's one thing that struck me suddenly,Jesus gave attention to the paraplegic.as in of all dozens for sick people why him? Because he cared for him,for he knew he needed special help.(he had foresight of His past sins, witch are too disturbing to be mentioned in the bible)However in the Same way, I want to reach out to you a hand so that we could debate about God's existence in the light of the Current Atheist bus campaign. I also want to share my thoughts about my love for god in a special way,so have a nice time guys because to me I want to heal your image of God that made you "nonbelieve" him (like that god is a mighty judge for example) I want to lead you back to God without force("believe or go to hell")(that ends the thought for today)
Your friend in Christ
PJ Martin
PS Ms Ariane I respect your opinion but don't put down the opinions of others by not posting their comments. You should be kind enough to accept all the criticism that would be the result of this posting of yours.
It is kind of unfair that you censor some of the comments but you use freedom of expression by posting what you have in mind.(Because of your ad ariane,the religious people are now angry at you)Me it's welcoming and universal,for all guys and gals
PS 2 (next thought for today, the image of god as we view it)
PJ Martin, you wrote:
"PS Ms Ariane I respect your opinion but don't put down the opinions of others by not posting their comments... It is kind of unfair that you censor some of the comments..."
So, PJ Martin, you criticise Ariane for censorship, but earier you wrote:
"Hey miss Ariane please stop, it's so sick and sad to offend some people like the "go-to-hell" adverts."
... in your attempt to "censor" Ariane's freedom of expession.
PJ Martin, can you not see your hypocrisy in these comments?
yup sorry
Ariene,
My name is Vanessa and I'm from Brazil. Im March,2009 in Superinteressante Magazine, page 33 we, brazilians could kwown about your campaing.
I congratulate you, and tell that I teach here in Brazil, and because of this 'bible alegory' many students deny to read about Drawin, Teory of Species, Big Bang etc.
Once a pastor of 'Assembléia de Deus' Church came to school bringing the bible and shout in fornt of shool telling that the teacher who is against the bible, is against Jesus and go to Hell.
I was starting in the career when it happened. And at this time, I couldn't believe this kind of ignorance already exist. And I saw the intolerance grows. Because most of my students was black and the churchs says that the 'candomble, umbanda and samba' are things from devil. I started working with then about the cultural traces, the cultural submission, and who wants to extint this cultural and history. Some of them understand, and became respectfull with your ancestrals, some continue hearing the church and being dools who just do what someonelse says to do.
Here in Brazil, when you say 'I'm agnostic or ateist' they look at you like an alien.
Brazilian MUST believe in something, anything. Because of that we have the bad politians that we have, the stolen churchs that stole money from the poor people and the country continue been a development country.
Until when?
Congratulations again.
Vanessa Braganti Djrdrjan
vanessa@braganti.com.br
(versão em português)
Oi Ariane,
Eu sou Vanessa, sou brasileira e, em março de 2009 através da revista Superinteressante nós brasileiros pudemos saber da sua campanha.
Eu te parabenizo e te digo que sou professora aqui no Brasil e, por causa dessas 'alegorias bíblicas', muitos alunos se negam a ler sobre Darwin, Teoria da Evolução das Espécies, Big Bang etc.
Uma vez um pastor da Assembléia de Deus entrou na escola gritando que o professor que era contra a bília era contra Jesus e que iria para o Inferno.
Eu estava no início da carreira e não conseguia entender como, nos dias de hoje, alguém ainda podia ser ignorante a esse ponto. E então eu vi a intolerância crescer. A maioria dos meus alunos é negra e eles são orientados a pensar que Candomblé, Umbanda, Samba são coisas do Demônio. Eu então comecei a trabalhar com eles sobre traços culturais, submissão cultural, a quem interessa a extinção de sua cultura e história.
Anguns entenderam e começaram a ser mais respeitosos com seus ancestrais, outros continuaram ouvindo a igreja e sendo marionetes e servindo de massa de manobra.
Aqui no Brasil, quando você diz'sou agnóstico ou ateu' te olham como se fosse um alienígena.
Brasileiros precisam acreditar em alguma coisa, QUALQUER coisa. Por causa disso é que nós temos os maus políticos que temos, as igrejas ladras que roubam dos mais pobres e nosso pais em eterno ciclo de 'pais em desenvolvimento'.
Até quando?
Parabéns novamente
Vanessa Braganti Djrdrjan
vanessa@braganti.com.br
Beautifully said, Ariane.
""Thought For The Afternoon
We live in a beautiful, fascinating and complex world,...
"We all want to live long, enjoyable lives free from fear and pain. ....
"We’re lucky to be alive - and to live life to the full, we need to share it with others and learn from them - whatever you, or I, believe. ""
A modification of what DavidP said (February 6, 2009 2:04 PM) might make a good bus slogan:
'Humanism - how we live together is more important than what we believe.'
I believe in love - all kind of love - and I believe we have to be concentrated to be good all the time (it's hard!). I try my best to keep in mind, no matter what people say, that I have to be patience and I have to be good. But there's no God up there telling me that. I know what I have to do and what I don't. And Im flexible.
Paty, Brazil
Wonderfully well executed piece of writing!
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